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Code 016-Top 10 Best Practices to 10,000 Podcast Downloads with Craig Hewitt from Castos

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Craig Hewitt from Castos is on to share his best tips to get your first 10,000 podcast downloads.  Craig is the founder of Castos.com, a complete all in one podcast production service.   Craig walks us through the best practices to growing your podcast today.

We talk about why you should pick a couple of growth strategies to test at a time and what you should be thinking about as you start growing your online presence.


(Click here–>>  Craig Hewitt Podcast Transcript or scroll to the bottom to read the full PDF Transcript)

Show Notes with the Craig

02:45 – The Podcast Hackers Facebook group is a great resource from Craig and the Castos crew.

03:54 – Dave Jackson was on the podcast in episode 6 and talked about starting and launching a podcast.

7:30 – Arron Walker and John Lee Dumas were both on different Outdoors Online podcast episdoes and talked about the importance of becoming a guest on other podcasts to grow your business.

10:00 – We talk about using Overcast’s Paid Acquisition and ads.  Castos talks about paid ads here.

15:16 – We talk about their new Podcast “Audience” from Craig and Castos. 

17:00 – Jeff Umbro from PodGlomerate was on the Castos show here.

19:30 – Email marketing for podcasters blog post from Castos.

20:20 – Mail Chimp, Convert Kit or Drip are a few key email service examples.  I use and love ConvertKit.  Here is an affiliate link if you want to get ConvertKit and Support this podcast.

22:45 – Headliner or Wave can help you create an audiogram.  

26:30 – Zapier is a great tool for automating.  Michael O’Neal was on our podcast and talked about automating here.

27:40 – Podcast like a pro is another great resource and a free course that was previously sold at $499.  

34:00 – Eric Nuzum was on Castos Podcast – Audience here and on our podcast here.  

34:20 – I note Dennis and Wild Fish Wild Places and the new podcast he is creating right now.


You can find Craig at castos.com and on the Podcast Hackers Facebook Group


Top 10 Best Practices to 10,000 Podcast Downloads

  1. Guesting on other Podcasts
  2. Paid Acquisition with Overcast and Others
  3. Placement of Your Show in another podcast or a feed drop
  4. Online Community – Facebook, Slack, etc
  5. Connect with your audience via email
  6. Create highly valuable social media assets with Wave or
  7. Treat your guests well with Calendy and setting up interview
  8. After the podcast (bundle with quotes and the blurb 5)
  9. Understand what audience wants and Taylor content to that need
  10. Outreach to blogs, newspapers, magazines and others


Resources Noted in the Show

Free Podcast Course via Castos

free podcast course


Videos and/or podcasts Noted in the Show

Jeff Umbro from PodGlomerate was on the Castos show here.


Wild Fish Wild Places


Read the Full Transcript with Craig Hewitt:

Click here:  Craig Hewitt Podcast Transcript  to get the Full PDF Transcript

or continue reading below……..

(Apologies for any transcription errors – this was generated automatically by Otter.ai)


Craig 0:01
Having a good and growing email and healthy email list is probably the most valuable marketing asset that you can have. Right? Yes, you know Twitter followings and Facebook groups and all that are great, but email is ubiquitous. Everybody uses it, everybody’s on it. Everybody reads it for the most part. And so if you don’t have an email, and it’s the only thing that you own, entirely, right, Twitter probably won’t shut down tomorrow, but but it might. And email is probably never going to go away.

Dave S 0:29
That was Greg Hewitt with a great reminder of why you should be growing your email list every day. If you’re still trying to get your first 10,000 downloads. This one is going to be right up your wheelhouse. Welcome to today’s session of the marketing podcast. This is outdoors online co the marketing podcast that helps you elevate your business through online marketing master sessions. Join Dave each week as he helps you grow your online influence via interviews with leading entrepreneurs from around the world. Craig Hewitt founder of Castos dot com and the host of the great podcast audience is here to break out a huge top 10 list for growing your show. Find out which paid ads are working now for them how they are building their community and some tips on embracing rejection in your business. Are you as fired up as me for this one? turn up to your budget enjoy today’s episode with Craig Hewitt from cast dose com. How’s it going, Craig? Doing great. How you doing Dave? Good. Great to have you on here. I’ve been connecting I’ve been seeing your content out there. I’m not sure how long now but you guys it seems like you guys and buzzsprout I had Kevin on recently we talked about it seems like you guys are doing a really good job getting your message out there and, and tons of great content. So we’re gonna dig into everything you have going to cast dose in the in the podcast, but maybe you can just start us off in first tell. Tell me how you got into online marketing and podcasting?

Craig 1:52
Yeah, so I got into podcasting by starting my own show and just kind of wanted to talk about my journey as an entrepreneur and that was five years ago at this point and and along the way got into another podcasting related business and then that kind of grew and morphed into into Castos, which is a podcast hosting and analytics platform where we also do kind of done for you podcast editing and production. So Dave you record this episode send it to us we do all the audio show notes marketing assets and publish it for you. So yeah, that’s that’s my kind of deal right now. And yeah, it’s been an interesting five, five and a half year journey thus far.

Dave S 2:29
That’s amazing. So So yeah, so you guys do it also in Who is your target? Cuz it’s funny. I’ve been talking some people in fact, I think in your group podcast hackers, right is your Facebook group. You know, I was talking to a few people out there and it seems like anchor right I kept saying like, everybody’s like, Oh, yeah, I’m starting an anchor and i i don’t know if anchors changed, but it seems like maybe anchor is a good place to start. What’s your take on anchor and then do you get a lot of people that are coming from anchor into your into as customers?

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Craig 2:57
We do. Yeah, we had a lot of folks that that started now. And to be honest, I don’t know other than it being free I don’t know the the kind of benefit of starting with anchor I think they have some some tools around like you can record and edit and publish all in the same place. But but they’re kind of limited for folks that really want to dive into the the nitty gritty of it all. But I think folks that end up having success with their shows or want more out of a platform where they base and promote and grow their podcasts. They they outgrow anchor pretty quickly and come to somewhere like casto. So

Dave S 3:31
yeah, good. Well, there’s ton ton of stuff. I think we’ll probably dig into some of that, some of it as we go. But I wanted to focus on growing a podcast. I mean, I think starting and I’ve had some episodes here. I’ve had Dave Jackson and a number of different people that talked about, you know, launching and starting a podcast, but I wanted to take that next step. So somebody has a podcast that they’ve kind of getting started and they want to grow that thing and I wanted to maybe talk about the top tips or whatever top 10 Top 20 tips on, you know where you would recommend what you would recommend people do maybe that you Do you coach on growing that show? Does that sound like a good place to start?

Craig 4:03
Yeah, no, I think it’s it’s the question for a lot of people is, you know, getting started, there’s a ton out there on getting started. There’s a, there’s a fair amount on, you know, how do I launch my show and get my first, you know, whatever, 100 or 1000 listeners, but there’s not a lot out there on how do I get to 10,000 listeners? And the answer is, it’s really hard. And it takes a lot of work and a lot of kind of stick to itiveness that, that honestly a lot a lot of us have other stuff to do that maybe is more important and you know, running a business or running a brand and growing it and having family and hobbies and things like that to where it’s easy to do a podcast and then the hard part is marketing and promoting it.

Dave S 4:41
There you go. So that is that is the struggle on it. And I have been noticing that just I don’t go deep into the Facebook groups, but I’ve just been looking at a little bit since I’ve kind of been getting this new show out and things like that. And yeah, seems like a lot of people are talking about how they’re, you know, maybe they’re in the hundreds, like you said in you know, and what’s that next step. So So somebody say they launched it, they’ve got it out there the show’s going, what do you recommend you have resources? Or where do you tell them? Because there are a lot of places you can go, right. I mean, you could reach back to your own network. You can. You know, you can guess you can go on guesting on other podcasts at what do you have? Like, I know you guys have some good blog posts out there. What would you tell him?

Craig 5:19
Yeah, I mean, I think you know, first of all, googling is is great for getting a real breadth of knowledge and information about this. And it can be overwhelming, you know, if you just Google and you see a bajillion things out there, but I think it really boils down to a handful of kind of best practices that that most folks can do and should see good results from and the first one is, is what we’re doing here today is Yeah, appearing on other people’s podcasts. And it’s a great way to kind of cross pollinate your message and your brand and the things you know, with someone else’s audience. So Dave, you and I are talking today, the listeners of this show we’re going to hear My name is Kassianos and the things that that we know and do and might say, you know, hey, I’m thinking about starting a podcast that guy Craig sounds like he knows what he’s talking about, I’ll go check out their platform, maybe they sign up as a customer or starting trial, or maybe they take our course, or whatever. But but this is the easiest way for a lot of people to, to kind of expose themselves and their brands and their message to a new audience. And it’s a fantastic like use of time, right? I think a lot of folks in your audience are businesses, and they don’t or business owners and they don’t have a ton of free time to you know, grow a massive social media following of their own. But But guest appearing on someone else’s podcast. You know, we You and I are going to talk for an hour today and then you’re going to go edit and produce and market your podcast and I will help you and in the CO promotion of it because it’s it’s to both of our advantage at that point to to really help each other grow the show. And so I think that’s the place where where I start is to say like, yeah, there’s a there’s a fair amount, we can do to you know, have a Facebook group and email our audience when an episode comes out and all that kind of stuff, but that’s just enhancing what’s already there to grow the sphere outside of kind of where you already are. Starting with showing up on other people’s podcast is a super easy first step. That’s cool.

Dave S 7:16
That’s cool. And I, I wanted to highlight a couple I had two interviews previously with Aaron Walker and john Lee Dumas, son. And john said the same thing I asked him I think at the start maybe a similar question. And he said, Yeah, the guesting, he said, you know, don’t do anything get on, get on 100 different episodes. And in Aaron Walker, who’s a mastermind expert, right. He you know, he’s in with Dan Miller and all that crew. He, he was he’s been on 800 different podcasts. He I asked him, I asked him, What is your week look like it? He’s like, Well, you know, 40% of it is doing guest posts or doing guest podcasts, which is like, wow, that guy’s making, you know, he’s making I don’t know how much money and then he spends almost half his time to talk to you. So there you go, right. Yeah,

Craig 7:58
yeah. No, I mean, it’s And it’s both it’s it’s a really, it’s a really good way to share what you know, with with new folks. But But also, I mean, just to kind of go back to it’s a really effective use of your time as a business owner, because it doesn’t take much planning, you show up and talk about something you know a lot about. And that’s why someone is, is having you on as a guest, and it’s mutually beneficial for everybody. Yeah, that’s a great fit.

Dave S 8:21
Cool. Cool. Well, let’s keep going. So what else? Oh, so we get the guessing down in that. And I mean, there are some struggles there. And we could talk about that how to do it. But let’s just let’s keep jumping down the list on other things where people can grow their their podcast, what else would you throw out there?

Craig 8:34
Yeah, I think the one to explore and we’ve done a bit of it, and it it has a strong ROI is is paid acquisition for your podcast. So specifically for us advertising on overcast, it’s a podcasting app. You can choose to advertise your podcast in a place where other people are already listening to podcasts. So you don’t have to overcome this barrier of you know, promoting your passions. Guess to somebody that has never listened to a podcast and doesn’t have the app on their phone and doesn’t know how to subscribe and all this kind of stuff, you’re in a place where they’re already consuming content and you can match up your show and the message and the pitch of your show with the behavior of someone who’s already kind of consuming this content medium. And so we’ve we’ve promoted our audience, podcast and overcast several times, and it is it is really effective you get you know, cost per click and cost per new subscribers metrics from overcast. And you know, if folks have a little bit of a budget to to throw at their show, this is a pretty passive way to do you set it up and run the ad for a month. I think we paid $600 but just again, a great way to kind of market your show outside of your own domain. Yeah, okay. It’s, yeah, and then kind of similarly, or maybe like a hybrid of the two is something that we’re just starting to explore which is having like placements of Your show in another podcast whether that means having another show mention your podcast or the term is feed drop, which is where someone releases an episode of your podcast in their feet. And you see this with some of the big networks like gimlet and NPR and relay and five by five. But a lot of us could do this too. And this is this is something that we’re just starting to do. But it is it is kind of the version 2.0 or the extension of guesting on another podcast is to work out a mutually beneficial kind of relationship with other podcasts in your niche that are slightly different. Then, then your show and the audience and the topic that you’re talking about, but related enough to where if they mentioned your show, and you swap that so they mentioned your show that you mentioned their show on your podcast or you drop an episode which is kind of like the next step. The chances of those people you know converting over to be unlisted of your show. Are are very good because they’re already podcast listeners. And they’re hearing your message from somebody that they know and trust. That’s awesome. Yeah, that one. Yeah,

Dave S 11:08
definitely. Cool. So as we’re looking at these some of these different things, how many strategies just off the top of your head? Do you think there are out there that they’re, you know, that you typically hear about common ones? Or maybe some some that aren’t so common?

Craig 11:21
Yeah, I mean, jeez, I, you could probably list 20 different strategies out there. But But I think maybe the more important thing is, is picking a couple to run with and trying them for a good amount of time and seeing what result you get, john, because I think we all I mean, just mentioned, we can Google this and see, you know, 800 blog posts about how to grow a podcast audience. And that’s not what we need, right? Like, we need, hey, this is probably your best chance at growing audience. And here’s how you do it. And this is like the one or two things that you ought to try. Go do it for three months and see what your download numbers look like, and then come to reevaluate. And if it’s an experiment that worked great, you have a way to grow your show if it didn’t work. Okay, go back to the drawing board, pick out another tactic or two that you’re gonna try for the next quarter. And and see how that goes.

Dave S 12:11
That’s a great idea. Yeah. So well, let’s keep that let’s keep working through this because I think that is a great point.

Craig 12:16
The next one I would mention that, that we’ve had a lot of success with, not just for our podcast, but kind of for our brand is an online community. So it’s a Facebook group. It’s a Slack channel, it’s discord or discourse, a forum and the the thing about this is I think it’s it’s maybe not even a growth tactic for your podcasts, but it’s a growth tactic for your brand because it takes things to the next level with with your audience. And I mean that in the podcast, say the podcast is kind of the tip of the spear, tip of the spear. You know, people will get to know you and hear your name and your your message from the podcasts and they go check out your Facebook group to kind of dive in and learn more and continue that discussion. between episodes, but then they also start talking to each other. And that’s really the where the magic happens is like, in this podcast, you and I are talking and the listeners will listen. But they, the listeners can’t talk to each other in a podcast. And you can’t even really talk to the listeners or they can’t talk to you. But in some kind of community where there’s a many to many relationship that’s going on. That’s really where you take what the idea of podcasting is to the next level, which is to create a community where people are getting a ton of value from just being in the community. And I think that’s like, really what we want, like nobody, nobody wants a podcast, right? They want a community and something valuable for whatever purpose that is. And I think the quicker that you can try to get there, the better because then you’ll start seeing the value of all this work that we’re doing to create the content and, you know, digital marketing strategies is like create something valuable For people, and for a lot of people, that is some kind of connection, and value that they can that they can get ultimately from other people, because there’s a million tools out there, and strategies and blog posts and YouTube channels and all this kind of stuff. But I think as as digital marketing and the internet is evolving, we’re finding almost that like, it’s the people once again, that are really making a lot of this stuff valuable for you know, for both sides of the coin. That’s cool.

Dave S 14:29
And I will you know, that nobody wants a podcast, I will say, you know, for V it’s kind of funny, because, I mean, I love the podcasting thing, you know what I mean? It’s, it’s funny, I struggle with some, you know, you could I’ve talked about my journey a little bit, right. I’ve had a lot of struggles along the way. But the podcasting thing is something I’ve just really I mean, if I could be like, you know, it’s like, like a Rogan, right? I mean, the guy just sits there. And I kind of do a little bit of that, but just That’s all it is. You just go and you talk to people and then somehow you make a business out of that. I think if I could do that, that would be a, you know, that’d be a pretty amazing thing, but no, I hear you. I mean, Basically where we’re trying to build that audience, right? That’s, that’s what you guys, you know, that’s the name of your podcast. And that’s what we’re all trying to do to help a lot of times for this help business grow.

Craig 15:10
Yeah. And it is that last part of what you said is, you know, he sits there and talks to people, and then makes a business out of it. And that’s, that’s the key is, is the podcast is, for a lot of us is that entry point to our brand. And then there’s a whole bunch of other stuff. You know, it’s a Facebook community, it’s a an in person event, it’s a course it’s a product, it’s a service, it’s a whatever, but the podcast is not the end of the line for a lot of us. That’s cool.

Dave S 15:37
Well, there’s on all these topics there. I keep having things I want to dig into, you know, talking about your but your podcasts. That’s one thing, you know, is a great, you know, just audience, right? I mean, maybe let’s just touch on that really quickly. I was curious about that. How, you know, why did you choose audiences name because it seems like, you know, audience maybe isn’t the first word that comes up when people are thinking about growing you know, what would be another name instead of audience That you could have used

Craig 16:00
Hmm, that’s a good one. Um, so the the goal of the podcast really is to to have folks follow along with us as we grow our show, because it’s a relatively new podcast, I think we have 30 episodes. Oh, wow. So so it’s not been going that long. Yeah. And the goal is for us to be pretty transparent about what we’re doing and what we’re trying and we report back. You know, we reported back about our overcast experiment and we’re reporting back on kind of some of our analytics from time to time. But But really, I mean, it’s, it’s maybe a little selfish in that I want a really good excuse to talk to some of the best people in podcasting. And and that’s what it is. I mean, I’ve had a couple of interviews this week with yeah leaders in the industry and get to talk to them about hey, how do you monetize your show? You know how to someone on recently, Jeff Umbro from pod glom right. And they’re a big Podcast Network asked him all about how they monetize the shows within the network. And, I mean, it’s I’ve been in this five and a half years, and there was probably half of the stuff in that episode I’d never heard of. And it’s like, the best possible form of like continuing education and for me refining what I know about this so that we can then share that with with more folks in our podcast and in our blog and YouTube channel and stuff. So yeah, I mean, audience as a name is, is I think, pretty, pretty representative of what the show is about is is how to how to create a podcast and grow your audience. And and they’re, they’re not the same things, but they’re, they’re the kind of two pillars of like, what makes a good show success makes the show successful, I should say is like creating really great content. And there’s a lot that goes into that. And then how to promote and market your show to get more listeners.

Dave S 17:48
Yeah, gotcha. Now I like the the audience. I mean, it definitely resonates with me for sure. And yeah, and it’s a great, it’s definitely you guys have some good stuff. I’ll check out that recent show as well. Well, let’s keep going. Let’s keep going down the list. What else do we have? So we have Facebook groups and the groups What else would you recommend?

Craig 18:05
Yeah, I think that the the next one would would beak and and kind of going back to your existing audience a bit is to connect with folks regularly. And we do this via email a lot. You know, it’s it’s 2020. And an email should should have been dead A long time ago. But But we find that connecting with folks and sharing about the episodes and why people might listen is a really effective way to just stay in touch and to keep the podcast top of mind for them. So we sent an email with every episode that goes out. And we just a really brief summary about kind of what the episode is about why folks should listen and a link right to it on our website. And so this kind of keeps the people that are already in your circle engaged in the show. But But we we find these emails perform really, really well. And I think it’s nice to kind of bring that back in house a little bit. Instead of He’s looking to kind of grow grow your brand, outside of your existing circle is to really take care of those folks that are already already in there.

Dave S 19:08
Yep, yep. Okay. And I was just thinking as you’re talking there again, I mean, there’s a lot of the Getting Started stuff that we’re kind of not touching on right now. But you know, anything else as far as if somebody was just getting started and didn’t have an email list? Where do you Where do you point them to tell them how to get started? You guys have some resources there.

Craig 19:28
Yeah, we have a we definitely have a blog post on kind of email marketing for podcasters just search email marketing podcasts and Castillo’s it should pop up. But I mean, I think the the important thing there is one having a good and growing email and healthy email list is probably the most valuable marketing asset that you can have. Right? It’s you know, Twitter followings and Facebook groups and all that are great, but email is ubiquitous. Everybody uses it, everybody’s on it. Everybody reads it for the most part. So if you don’t have an email, and it’s the only thing that you own, entirely right, Twitter probably won’t shut down tomorrow, but but it might. And email is probably never going to go away. And so if you don’t have an email list start one used to use a tool like MailChimp or ConvertKit, or drip or whatever. And start building that and as, like, the really easy thing of, you know, growing your list is offer something unique as an incentive for people to opt in to your list that they can’t get anywhere else. So it’s a it’s a white paper, it’s a crash course it’s a report, it’s a consulting call, it’s something tangible easily deliverable online or an email that folks can’t get really anywhere else and just offer that up in a pop up or a toaster or sidebar or whatever. And, and, and you’ll see that growth and it’s slow, you know, but But over time, you’ll you’ll get there and I mean, you talked about some of these really mega successful digital marketers. And I’ve heard in podcast episodes, they’ve done that they always go back to their email list as the most valuable thing that they own and that they do on a regular basis. So I can’t go wrong.

Dave S 21:14
That’s right. Cool. All right, let’s keep going. What else do we have? So we’re, I think we got five on here. Well, let’s shoot for 10 if we can get at least 10 we got anything else coming to mind?

Craig 21:25
Yeah, I mean, I think the next one is, is creating really highly valuable social media assets. So you know, coming up with unique kind of images for the podcast is an easy one. But then using a tool like headliner, or WAV to create audio grams to share on social media is just a cool way to stand out. You know, there’s a bajillion text posts and there’s some really interesting image posts but videos still stands out and works really, really well. And so yeah, that’s that’s an easy one go a lot of podcast hosts have this integrated into They’re platforms. So it makes doing this really easy and doesn’t cost you anything extra. And so that’s that’s that’s kind of 201 stuff because they’re they’re a little complicated to make and take a bit of time but but it’s worth it if you’re going to be promoting your stuff on on social media a lot.

Dave S 22:15
Yeah. And these are just the basically the squiggly lines, it looks like it’s a picture of, you know, whatever. And it looks like you can tell they’re talking there’s and you got the sub heading right down this reading it off any other tips when you do those? So you guys integrate those into what you guys do at Cass dose? We do.

Craig 22:33
Yeah, yep. So we have an integration with headliner. And so every time you publish an episode, then you can click a button, it takes you over to just click a few more buttons in the headliner app, and then download or publish it right from there. Yep. That’s awesome.

Dave S 22:45
That’s awesome. Cool. Yeah.

Craig 22:46
Yeah. I think kind of related to that. Is is when you have guests on the podcast is really like treat them well and treat them well. Dave, you did a great job of this before. You can I’ve introduced yourself and kind of who you are and what you’re about, invited me on the podcast. Thank you very much, by the way, yeah, and you know, set up everything using calendly. And that’s great. So that’s all really easy. And then we’re doing the podcast and then treat them well afterwards means when the episode goes live, don’t just send them an email and say, Hey, our episode is live today. Here’s the link. I know, hey, you you go figure this out and post it but but send them a bundle of resources that they can share, you know, send them the audio grand, send them the featured image, send them some quotes from the episode, and say, Hey, here’s a handful or a dozen things that you might share, if you would like, these are all the resources, you don’t have to think about it, you just click a button and tweet this out or post it to the Facebook group or put it on LinkedIn or whatever. But but don’t make them go be creative, because that’s they don’t need that you know, and like they’ve done you a favor. By coming on your show. You should do them the courtesy of giving them the resources they need to kind of do you a favor in return by It on their social media. That’s huge.

Dave S 24:02
That is a huge tip and something I actually struggle with a little bit I, I’m trying to Yeah, I know it’s I’ve got a, I’m working with a new virtual assistant now trying to get some of that stuff to do a better job at it. And it’s just been a struggle, right? Because like everybody time and creating that stuff, and I think you’re right. I think that, you know, some of people love to share stuff, but I think some people yeah, a lot of people, you know, they might not even share it if you don’t make it easy for them and, and think that you’ve got an audience of a person you just interviewed, you know that if you do it right, you could just reach out to their audience. So that’s a huge tip.

Craig 24:38
Yeah, yeah. And I think that that kind of related to this is to to set that expectation and you have to decide for yourself how kind of serious you want to take this. You know, I asked this question a lot in my podcast of like, you know, how How serious are you about expecting your guests to share the episode after it’s over and Some people say, yeah, this is kind of in writing before we agree for them to come on the show, you know, I, you know, I’m in a contract, but in the email to say, hey, love you on the show, if you do, I would like you to share this out on email and social media. That’s, you know, to one end of the spectrum, and I don’t think that’s wrong. It’s just for some people. That’s right. And the other is, we don’t ever ask anything of our guests. And I think that might be kind of too far to the other extreme, I think to say that the reality is, if you have done a good job as an interviewer to highlight and showcase and let the guests use your podcast as a platform to share what they know, then they should want to share that with everybody because they might not get the chance to do that on their own show sometimes. And so like, I think of this as like, Hey, we have really enabled our guests to shine on our podcast, and they should want to share that with everybody to to kind of let let the world know kind of what they’re all about what they know. And but I think that asking people up front and kind of reinforcing that after the fact in to whatever degree you want is is not a bad thing. But that goes back to kind of the process that you’re talking about David’s you know that that’s some stuff you have to bake in, early on and the emails that you send, as you’re leading up to the show.

Dave S 26:16
Yeah, yeah, there. Yeah. I think that and I haven’t been the greatest at automating, but that’s another part of it. Right? There’s a lot of tools out there Zapier and things like that, where you can just automate things and I mean, have you guys had so now for you is this I’m not sure. What do you have as far as your your team out there? Do you have a team or what do you have going? How you doing all your stuff?

Craig 26:36
Yeah, we’re a team of seven. And yeah, the podcast is is one of the few things that I kind of own pretty entirely. But what we use, we use our own kind of casters productions team to do the editing in the show notes and the publishing and everything. But, but I’m the one that schedules the guests and does the interviews. And then I do a fair bit of the marketing stuff afterwards.

Dave S 26:59
Yeah, okay. Yeah, I was wondering about that because I was looking at the Nate you know obviously cast DOS and what what is that name? What How did you guys come up with that?

Craig 27:07
Yeah, that’s that’s one of those kind of made up. Yeah. Tech names. There’s there’s not much to it. Yeah,

Dave S 27:13
there you go. It’s good. So you got cast Oh, so that you’ve got the audience so you’ve got things that don’t you know, there’s no you wouldn’t even know and podcast hackers. Right. I mean, though, those are three things, or is there anything else you guys have out there that, you know, kind of has a different name and is connected to the brand?

Craig 27:30
Yeah, I mean, we have a we have a free podcasting course called podcasts like a pro. So it’s on the teachable platform so good to discover dot teachable, calm podcast, like a pro is there? Yeah, we haven’t been the best at naming things to connect the dots back to back to the brand, but that’s what it is

Dave S 27:48
what I think I don’t know. I mean, I would say what things is right. I think it buzzsprout again, right. buzzsprout has, they’re doing a similar thing to you guys. Right? But everything’s buzzsprout right? They got buzzsprout they’re, you know, they’re coming. They got the buzzsprout podcast and either way, I mean, I think, you know, I your messages getting out because I’m an obvious you know, we connected because of what you guys are doing so, yeah, yeah, so Okay, well, let’s keep going anything else coming to mind to help grow that that new podcast?

Craig 28:18
Yeah I think that this might this might sound like a cop out a little bit but really understanding what your audience wants from the podcast and why they’re listening and tailoring your content to that. And this is really hard to do. If you don’t know your audience really well, if you know your audience really well. I think this is a lot easier. But I think people get this right to varying degrees. And most of us probably not to kind of the fullest extent we can. But But you notice that when when shows have really excellent content, and it’s exactly what their audience is looking for. The growth and I say takes care of itself but to a much greater extent than podcasts that has crappy content and it’s not recorded Well, it’s not edited Well, isn’t aligned with what their audience wants. Certain episodes are the podcast as a whole just falls flat. And so doing the work to understand that and keeping that really top of mind is super important. And again, it’s not easy, but but to the extent you can really excel at this, a lot of the promotional stuff we’re talking about will take care of itself. Because your audience will say, Hey, man, I listen to this awesome podcast, you ought to check it out. And that word of mouth kind of viral promotion of your show is is the best because it’s super authentic and trusted. And it’s the way that most people learn about new podcast is word of mouth and recommendations. That is that’s it and for you guys, do you. You know, I think about the Facebook group. Obviously, there’s lots of questions I how do you choose what to podcast about or write blog posts about? Yeah, that’s a good question. Uh,

Unknown Speaker 29:57
I think that

Craig 29:58
you know, again, relative Typically early on in the podcast, we have kind of this story arc that we’re trying to follow. And we did start really all the way at like one on one stuff like this is the mic and this is what a feed is, and all this kind of stuff and, and we’ve gotten a lot more into that kind of to a one level content creation and audience connection stuff. And so I think that’s where we are now. And like growing and monetizing your podcast is where we are now and we’ll probably continue on on those few threads for for a while. We get a lot of inspiration and feedback from the Facebook group, just because it is what our audience is talking about and what they what they’re worried about and what they’re struggling with and what they’ve seen success with. And that’s super cool. So we get guest ideas we get topic ideas for me to cover like in a solo show from from like emails we get back from listeners and from the Facebook group. Yeah, but but much more from the Facebook group. Just the the dialogue is much more kind of free flowing there.

Dave S 30:59
Yep, yeah. Okay. And yeah, let’s see any anything else? Any other tips we can add to this list?

Craig 31:07
Yeah, I think that covers marketing pretty well. I mean, they’ve if you do all those things that you will grow your audience Yeah, there’s, there’s no. Yeah. And I would add, I would add one more maybe. And that is like, outreach to publications and journals and things like that. Yeah. In your niche. Again, if you’re creating really awesome share worthy content, you should feel good about reaching out to a blog or a newspaper or a publication and your space and saying, Hey, I created this podcast, it’s awesome. You and your publication will be better off for sharing this with your readers. And that’s how you have to think about it to get promotion right in your head I think but, but if you have created that thing that is super awesome. You should feel good about doing that. And not shy because I think a lot of us are shy when it comes to promoting our own stuff, but if what you’ve created is really awesome. Then you should feel that good about it. And that publication, whether it’s a blogger, an influencer or whatever, should should say, Wow, you’re right. This is awesome. I’m gonna put this in our next article or a new email or whatever. And that that takes some guts, because you’ll get know a lot and you’ll get worse than No, but, but you’ll get yes, sometimes. And if it’s that right alignment, it’s it’s really powerful.

Dave S 32:24
Yeah. What’s the mindset for the to tell somebody on that know, if they’re not good about taking the nose? How do you, you know, say, you know, the reject, it’s obviously part of sales or whatever, but what would you tell somebody that struggles with that?

Craig 32:36
Yeah, I would say to kind of set yourself up for for that expectation to say like, this isn’t going to work sometimes. And you just have to be okay with that going in. Otherwise, you’re going to do it once or 10 times and get rejections and say, This is terrible. I’m never going to do this again. But But if you go into and say, and really believe that this thing I created is awesome, and this person, I’m reaching out to really should believe also that it is so good that they have to share this with their audience because then they’ll look great too. Yeah. You know, like, and if, and if you have done that and believe that, then getting rejected is a lot easier. You know, like you get rejected, you can say to yourself, well, that’s too bad. They’re missing the boat, because this is really awesome. Yep. Yeah. And I think if if you’ve done that, and you’re able to do that, then then you’ll you’ll be much, you’ll receive the rejection a lot easier, and it’ll be less frequent.

Dave S 33:29
Right, right. How would you say? So again, going back to that new and I did want to highlight that that last one you noted on the outreach is something I’ve been doing and this podcast is going to be going out to some pretty big, some organizations that are focused on the business on the, you know, the outdoor and fishing side. So I think it’s a and those are relationships I built long ago, right? And in fact, the relationships I built with other people who recommended me eye contact these other people, you know, I mean, so it’s that whole network. The whole network thing is huge. So let’s take you know, Dennis, is this person I was chatting with, he has this outdoor fishing show and it’s a pretty awesome show and he’s going to be starting a podcast What? You know, when he thinks about his audience for his, I mean, where do you think he starts as far as you know, how does he determine where to focus a show how far to niche down and all of that?

Craig 34:22
Yeah, I think that you know, Dennis knows a lot about his his audience and the people that that he’s serving. And so it’s, you know, hey, why do people come to him already? What what are they doing there? What kind of problems do they have? What kind of ambitions and goals do they have? What What do they not know? And what can he help with? And a lot of those kind of questions and and really building like a persona for this person. And so you know, give give them a name right? Like Dennis like, I don’t know if dennis is real or not, but if you don’t, yeah, give that give the person a name and give them you know, what is their age? What is their gender? What is their location? What are their hobbies and literally write all of this stuff down. And once you do that, then a lot of these questions about like, what are you going to talk about? And how often are you going to publish episodes? And how long should they be? And what format should your show be all really make good sense to you and you have data around it, instead of just saying, I’m going to have a 30 minute interview style podcast that’s out once a week. Like that’s not right. For a lot of people. You don’t know that unless you know, your audience. And you’ve listened to enough of them to say, Okay, this is what people are looking for. This is what other shows in the space that are targeting the same kinds of demographics are doing and they’re successful than that. That’s a decent indicator to

Dave S 35:41
There you go. Yeah, and there are a lot of different Yeah, I mean, there’s the five minute podcast 10 minute and there’s some that are longer, but it seems like it seems like they’re the more the common is 45. You know, or somewhere in that range. What What do you think is the most common time on a podcast for the interview style show?

Craig 35:58
Yeah, for an interview show, I think 30 and 45 minutes is is good for a solo show. I think, you know, 1520 ish minutes is good. Yeah, but but it takes a while in an interview to get to know somebody and kind of peel that onion back a little bit.

Dave S 36:13
Yeah. And that’s what I struggle with on, you know, the, on the wet fly swing podcast. I mean, I’ve had I had one of those that almost went two hours. And, you know, I mean, we just dug down. I mean, I could sit there and talk forever about, you know, fishing and ROI, you know, online marketing as well. So that’s a struggle I have, right, because I would love to sit here and talk about your whole background for an hour, and then get into some of the tips and tricks stuff. You don’t have any but you just can’t do it. So I guess that’s, I guess that’s my struggle, I kind of have to learn to just shorten it up. In fact, I’m looking at the analytics, I think that I’m seeing that that more in that range, people are cutting off, right, more it gets to the longer the longer end. So

Craig 36:52
yeah, and I think it’s a skill as an interviewer that that a lot of you know, early on podcasters are scared of that and maybe for good reason is because they haven’t honed the skill yet of getting to the heart of the matter with a guest pretty quickly and you don’t want to be rude about it. But no, you know, asking the same guest the same questions that you’ve heard on a million other podcast is just not great original content. And so yeah, having a way to do the homework to see what they’ve talked about in other shows and finding a unique angle to take with a guest is is hard, but is really worth it because then you get an interesting person that a lot of people know about. Talking about something they haven’t talked about before, and then that’s super unique. And so like, as people can do that, I think they’ll find their success that the longer interviews especially resonate with people because they’re they’re going down a road they haven’t been down before.

Dave S 37:45
Right, right, exactly. That’s it. Okay. And what about for audience who is your your target audience?

Craig 37:52
Yeah, so our our we’re a podcast for podcasters and our show is really aimed at folks who have started their shows and are looking to grow grow their listeners listenership so anywhere from you know just started a couple months ago two years and they’re looking to to really kind of level up their game.

Dave S 38:09
Okay, and I’m just gonna zip through a few weeks I want to do to get you out of here in in a decent amount of time. So I guess we could call this a rapid rapid fire if we want but what about so in your Facebook group what what is the top? I mean you know a couple of the top questions you guys get

Craig 38:24
routinely are there some that kind of stick out? what we’re talking about today is by far the most popular question how do I grow my How do I grow my listenership?

Dave S 38:34
So not monetized? Not monetized? That’s not that’s not the top it’s more how to how to grow it.

Craig 38:39
Yeah, I mean, that’s putting the cart before the horse, I think, right? I mean, you can’t monetize a show that doesn’t have listeners. So yeah, Monique, you know, growing, growing the audience to a point to where you can monetize maybe is that’s those are the that’s the one two punch. And then after that, it’s real beginner saying like, what microphones Should I get and what is an RSS feed and how do I get on Spotify, those kind of more more kind of beginner things, which is understandable because maybe podcasting is pretty complicated if you haven’t done it before.

Dave S 39:09
Cool. Well, what? What’s your take on a Joe Rogan that $100 million is a good, good or bad for podcasting?

Craig 39:15
I think it’s great. Yeah, I think it’s great. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people are scared about Spotify is going to take over the world, and your show is gonna have to be on Spotify, and Apple is gonna go away, and like, that’s not gonna happen. You know, like, if it does happen, that will be a long way from now. Yeah. And if they don’t do it, well, if Spotify doesn’t do that, well, then another platform will pop up that is more open and people can come in. But but that’s supposes that Apple is just going to go away, which is also not going to happen.

Dave S 39:45
Yeah, cool. Cool. What about this is kind of a big one. Maybe you just give us a short little story of Have you had any I mean, your journey and when did you start? When did you kind of get into the online marketing and in that whole space?

Craig 39:55
Yeah. 2015

Dave S 39:58
Okay, so yeah, so you’ve been at about five years. So in that time, and I mean, have there been any struggles for you anything you can highlight here that maybe somebody can can learn from?

Craig 40:07
No man, all Rainbows, Rainbows and unicorns, all right? No, I mean, I think the I think the the biggest blunders I’ve had is kind of the typical stuff like, you know, sending the wrong emails to people. You know, putting a podcast episode out that I didn’t really mean to put out. I’ve been pretty careful about like, the content I put out and not not putting out stuff that’s not aligned with with my brand and what my audience is looking for. I think that’s the stuff that can really bite people in the butt. And we’ve not done that, fortunately.

Dave S 40:40
What about if you just look in your life, anything you want to highlight? Quickly, anything big that you maybe haven’t haven’t shared? yet?

Craig 40:48
I think the biggest regret for a lot of us is things we haven’t done, and I don’t have a lot of those, but I wish I would have gotten started earlier. Like you know, the best time to start a podcast is to But this, you know, the second best time is tomorrow. So yeah, I mean, I, I wasted a fair amount of time in corporate life. I mean, it taught me a lot of stuff, but I’m an entrepreneur at heart. And like, this is where I get my energy from. So I wish I would have done this earlier, but you can’t change it. But yeah, if I had to do over again, that’s what I would do.

Dave S 41:20
Yeah. Cool. How was that when you jumped? Did you kind of jump off the cliff? Or do you take it slow into the entrepreneur entrepreneurial stuff?

Craig 41:27
No, I mean, I had I had you know, a business that was a side projects for a long time as I was doing the corporate deal and, you know, built it up and saved a bunch of money as we were kind of run both at the same time. But I mean, it was horrible. I mean, the hours were terrible and didn’t see my family much. And so now I get to enjoy life a little more. Yeah.

Dave S 41:46
Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. All right, Craig. Well, I think I think we’ve done good here we’ve got some good stuff for sale for Dennis. That’s our avatar for this episode. You know, help him grow that new show he’s gonna be launched. You know for what you guys have gone anything else in the next stuff you might you want to highlight that you have coming up here.

Craig 42:03
No, I mean, I think that a lot of what we put out is you know, on our blog so just cast us comm slash blog for a lot of resource about a lot of things we’ve talked about. And then we mentioned the the podcast like a pro course. Just cast us comm slash course. Totally free like 30 video modules A to Z for podcasting folks that are wanting to get started. It’s a it’s a great place to check out. Yeah,

Dave S 42:24
yeah, yeah. Cool. And I’m gonna be checking that out for sure. Because I want to share as I I work on this little challenge, I want to put a link to that to help when I get to the growth phase right of that challenge. I’ll kind of highlight that one other thing too. You know, we talk a lot about fly fishing and outdoor a lot of companies here that are in that space. What’s your Do you have an outdoor activity you enjoy?

Craig 42:46
Yeah, I’m a pretty big runner. Yep. Oh, good. Good trail runner. Yeah.

Dave S 42:49
trail running awesome. Yeah, that’s that’s something I tried to do. I ran a half for I came here. I guess it It hurt me but you So, are you kind of the ultra ultra or what’s your style?

Craig 43:03
Yeah, I’ve done a bit of that. But I yeah, I’m getting tired. I’m not too old for it. I choose not to do that to my body anymore. Yeah, that’s recreational.

Dave S 43:12
Yeah. Yeah. What do you love most about trail running?

Craig 43:15
Just the simplicity you know, you put your shoes on and get a watch and go and there’s there’s not a bunch of stuff that I got. I got enough technology in my life. Normally that to be out of it for a while is really nice.

Dave S 43:26
So you’re not listening to a podcast

Craig 43:27
here, but it’s out there the trail? No, never. No.

Dave S 43:31
Cool, man. Hey, thanks for coming on here. I appreciate all the tips and in everything you guys have gone with the audience and tons of good resources. I’ll be sharing your stuff with everybody in my

Craig 43:40
audience as well. Awesome. Thanks, Dave is a blast.

Dave S 43:43
All right. We’ll see you later. Today’s big takeaway for me. Prepare your content so your guests get everything they need to share the hard work with their community. It’d be great if you could share this episode with one other person who wants to reach their first 10,000 downloads. I’d love to hear Also how I’m doing with the show. If you get a chance to be great to hear from you, you can reach back out to me via email on social. Looking forward to connecting with you on the next one. See you soon. Thanks for joining us today and for your support of the marketing podcast. If you found this podcast helpful, please share it with one other person and leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to the show.

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craig hewitt


Conclusion with Craig Hewitt

Craig Hewitt, the founder of Castos, is on the share his best tips for growing your podcast.  Find out how to set yourself up for rejection so it will become easier in your entrepreneurial journey.  We find out how our avatar, Dennis can create a better fishing podcast by utilizing the strategies that Craig notes today in the podcast.

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